In response to all the controversy that's occured here---over NNL and their decision to not let people pirate the game---I'll take a chance to try and debate the issue from the pro-industry, NNL side. I'll pepper this with #nnl quotes, so you guys know quite well--there is evidence for these views, and there certainly isn't any reason to think otherwise. (For debaters, here's where we are: Solvency: The affirmative solves for more money for minori, possibly saving them financial worries/troubles, and ensuring their existence. Aff also solves for better morality and legality. Inherency: Obvious. This entire "debate" basically lays out the rules for whether or not one should pirate the game--in this instance, I'm taking this thread as a debate whose victor will win over more minds through logic towards their viewpoint. I will post more evidence as need be. Please, do debate this topic with me in an honest and rational manner.) Do I really think that most people's minds will be changed by the post I'm about to make? No, but there will be the few whose sense of logic will save them. This post will point out the numerous irregularities and faults of thought that piraters (and their ilk, cheapskates) think serve their case. Please leave your misconceptions at the door, I ask of you, when reading this post. I have tried to portray this stance in the most straightforward, logical way possible. Enter without connotations of "evil" and "drama" and the point may rise to you. The majority of the arguments over the past ten pages of discussion have been in the following: I) "Piraters deserve to play the patch." Nobody deserves to play anything. This is evident in even the most simple moral systems, from the time one is a child. In school, did you ever get a good grade without working at it? Hardly. This is even more prevelent outside of academia--people do hard work in real life, and in return they get rewards and privileges. This game is nothing more than another one of those--a privilege, not a right, and it is rewarded accordingly, in this case with an adequate sum money. Introducing piracy into this system brakes its codes and rules, and needless to say it has been illegal for nearly ever (at least since the inception of the Berne Copyright Convention, placing that date at 1886). If piraters "deserved" the games, there wouldn't be so many issues involved when they get them---if they truly deserved them, this post and NNL's actions would be non-existent. What piraters are doing by circumventing the rules is immoral and illegal, and it is in response to this that NNL started their procedures. Besides, don't you miss that fuzzy feeling inside your heart when you've worked hard and paid good money for merchandise? Ia) "We deserve to play the patch because we wouldn't pay anyway" This is an incredible masterpiece of a fallacy. Simply put, by saying this, you are saying that you get the right to copy another person's artwork without their permission and without any respect. Moreover, contrary to many beliefs, there -are- people who are paying for Wind in order to play it legitimately. There -are- increased sales to minori, even if that stipend is a small amount--10 people at $100 is still one grand, no matter how you look at it. At least that many people have expressed their intent to pay for the game, and these are people whose vows rarely break---they will buy it, and that is extra money to minori. II) "Restricting the patch to legal copies is unfair, since not everyone can get one." "Fairness" is a word that has absolutely no weight in the real world. Life goes on, and it quite happily ignores any shred of "fairness" that one could attribute to it. Following that, there are no stipulations that say that distribution of this patch and the game have to be fairly distributed. Most people will interpret "fair" as adhering to the given rules of the system, in this case laws. NNL's procedure of legal-copy-checking does follow that system, and in that sense is more "fair" than giving out the patch freely. In all honesty, "being fair" is a cop-out argument. It is very subjective, and without a baseline of what one considers fair and what not, it bears no relevance to this discussion. E.g.: You might consider a friend giving you answers to be fair, while you consider the teacher giving out lots of homework "unfair." The word "fair" in that usage has absolutely no relevance to what would be called "moral"; it seems to be a word that could be a drop-in for "convenient." I think this is what most people in this thread have been imaging. NNL is being fair to the system of the law as well as to those who have worked hard. IIa) "I can't get Wind but through download and it's so expensive" That is a pity, but one that can be addressed. What you are paying for is a piece of Japanese culture, and in your doing so, you have all the various trappings of Japanese items--high prices (compared to where you may be), and overseas shipping. Saying that you are not willing to pay for this game is like saying that you are not willing to buy antiques, because they are old and expensive. It entirely defeats the purpose. Moreover, if the pricepoint is too expensive for you, save up! There is nothing that cannot be bought without an adequate amount of planning and perserverence---if you lack the both of those, you deserve nothing in the first place. Going back to point I), privileges come to those who work for it. There is always a way, no matter what the restrictions and problems, to get the reward legally and honestly. (Put your head to the matter, think of it as a life or death situation, and I'm 100% sure you'll be able to obtain Wind in an honest fashion.) IIb) "We can pirate it because it wasn't intended for us; if minori wanted to make money they'd translate it for us." The costs of translation are high--NNL has put in thousands of hours of work into editing and checking every segment of their work in order to make a good, solid product. To do such a thing on a professional scale would be extremely expensive, and most likely, if minori had ventured down this road, they would be very deep in the red for little return. It would be a suicidal business decision--quite possibly one of the worst Return on Investment ratios a banker could ever imagine. This is why minori does not translate for the US market. (They also have no experience in US business, culture, nor do they have a clear picture of their international demographic---not only would it be a bad investment, but it would be a blind one.) NNL has so graciously offered to do all of this work for free, opening up the game to other demographics. Just because it's there, though, doesn't mean you deserve it--it's much like saying that every Japanese person deserves a copy of Wind because it's Japanese. It doesn't work that way; refer to point I and having to work for a privilege. A good analogy of this situation is a computer store. Say you walk by a very nice display of a computer and free peripheral combo that's useful to you (and which happens to work only with that specific type of computer). You aren't given the right, nor even the privilege, of stealing the computer and then walking back to the store to demand the peripheral. III) "NNL is a dramawhore." Quite a subjective issue, but this issue is pretty clear: NNL hasn't acted outside of their bounds or done anything to actively attract attention. They have posted no bills saying "LOOK PIRATERS WE HATE YOU AND GO AWAY"; they have not actively required human sacrifices and attention in exchange for their patch. Most likely, you all are reflecting the issue and thinking that they are being unreasonable (see point I). Just because they are outside of the norm---that is, bowing to the piraters' wills-- does not mean that they have sought to attract your attention. They would most respectfully do well without it. There has been no dramawhoring here. IV) "NNL is wasting their work by not releasing it to the public." From beta-tester Lee Massi: "< Clammerz> With the time I put in, I also feel that it was not wasted. < Clammerz> Even if the patch was not released to the public, I still feel that it has been a worthwhile challange to partake in ^^ < Clammerz> And jsut seeing the reaction from that one person in the channel to give us his feedback was enough for me" From head insani translator Seung Park: "< gp32-white> I can't speak for Reikoku -- but I translated about 95% of Wind < gp32-white> And guess what? My time was *not* wasted. < gp32-white> *I* am the final arbiter of that. < gp32-white> Not a fool who does not know his place." NNL basically agrees with this statement: "The road to completion was the reason why we did this project. External happiness is a corollary." They have motivation that does not involve the glory and praise of the populus; they have done their translations and jobs because they enjoyed it and wanted to complete it. Whether or not it gets released at all--indeed, as the case seems to be--has no bearing on their "wasting" work. It has already served its purpose. I will now go on to make some arguments of my own: I) Act nicer, please. "< gp32-white> Let it be known that over the course of a year, I fielded a good number of technical support questions for planetarian. < gp32-white> Each person swore that he bought the game. < gp32-white> At the end of each tech support session, I specifically asked for the version of RealLive the game used. < gp32-white> This was an innocent enough question; scripts do behave differently on different versions of RealLive. < gp32-white> But the sad truth is, there's only one valid version of RealLive for planetarian < gp32-white> I will tell you that the number of people for whom I fielded question wasn't in the triple digits, but it was in the high double digits. < gp32-white> EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM lied to me. < gp32-white> So don't make it a political issue. < gp32-white> It's not a political issue when you LIE to me,." -- Seung Park, an insani translator While pirating may be a way of life for some of you, and I know fully well that I cannot stop you (it is your decision and your life), you do aggravate many people who have done the right thing and have been honest. Please be low key, at the least---adopt the attitude of a beggar, that of "beggars can't be choosers." Any other type of action on your part is a simple display of arrogance, greed, and narrowmindedness (arrogance in that you have no right to do so, greed in that you want things that you haven't worked for, and narrowmindedness for not understanding the entirety of the predicament). Ib) For once, fulfill your lust... I know it's a hard thing to do, but right now the pirate community (and hongfire) is a very greedy culture consisting of requests for "seed here" "reseed plz", without a single shred of actual gratitude for those that do the work. While it's not my place to ask you to respect them, such behavior... could only be described as boorish. There are a segment of people out there that drop by into IRC channels to say thanks---a shrinking percentage. Has the protocol of courtesy already gone the way of the dodo? (Many thanks to Mr. Park and Mr. Massi for letting me use their quotes.) Addendum A - What is the correct view to take, anyway? ====================================================== Much of the pirating attitude toward this game spurs from the fact that this is a software product, easily copied like any other digital work. There's an alternate view, and it applies quite well here---instead, view this game as a piece of art, such as a copy of Picasso's Guernica. One does not simply waltz into the UN headquarters or the Museo Reina Sofia and make copies for themself. There are rules and procedures to be followed, and what the piraters represent here are beggars---or more aptly, intruders-- that come into the museum, take pictures, and print out copies for themselves. Note that you have commited various crimes on different grounds---tresspassing on the museum's property, and then making illegitimate copies. Addendum B - Pirating as a Lifestyle---a little bit of slack, perhaps ===================================================================== Now, I used to be a fellow pirate, but with the release of this patch the circumstances have changed so greatly that I am not willing to pirate it. I openly pirate MPAA material, as well as Microsoft software. Why? Because I do not support their cause, and moreover, they do not need all that excess money--half the population could die in the US and they could live with the reduced ticket costs. By not pirating Wind -a breath of heart- you tell minori (with your wallet, the loudest, and possibly only respected speaker these days) that you support their cause, that you like their games and would like to see more. They will respond in kind. Case in point: the demise of Nekonekosoft due to lack of funds, as has been mentioned previously in this thread. If you don't support their causes, they will die off eventually, and you will regret it. The entire industry is -indeed- on a shoestring. Addendum C -- Ouch---NNL just closed the patch. Was it the right thing to do? ============================================================================ I believe so. They were perfectly within their rights to do so in order to control piracy. The insults that have been flung around them in this thread, and in other places, don't even come into the picture. I appreciate BM98, TokiNoKimi, and Daver's efforts in holding this side of the fort. :)